Y**u
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Fri Oct 14 11:10:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
This talk is about the chemical, Dopamine, that people feel in ecstasy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axrywDP9Ii0
It makes people want, without even knowing what is to be wanted. It is a
major chemical that people show in infatuation or new relationships. The
speaker also mentions its similar effect in some people's religious
pursuit.
When this chemical fades, the rosy glasses fall, and then things become
dull. However, this is exactly the time when true love comes in, to love
the real persons as who they are.
As to its religious implications, I don't think that Hell, or
reincarnation into cattle, etc, the so-called punishments real, nor is
the particular worry-free heaven real. We are already in heaven, the
place where we can feel the true joy and love. Any fear or reward driven
religions (or dopamine involved pursuits) are missing the point.
As Dr. Brian Weiss's book "Many lives, many masters" mentioned, Hell is
an illusion, that can be dispelled in a single thought. When that person
is afraid and guilty, the Hell is there, and then he feels loved, the
Hell is instantly dispelled.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Fri Oct 14 12:23:39 2011, 美东) 提到:
This is a book I find very useful:
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
Is there anyone else who knows this person, and do you think what he teaches
is the real Buddhism or not? Well, real or not, his book speaks to me.
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laurara02 (小莲莲) 于 (Fri Oct 14 12:30:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
还是很佩服你的英语水平,我还是不喜欢读英文的东西.
总觉得隔了一层.
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grant (养心堂主) 于 (Fri Oct 14 12:33:17 2011, 美东) 提到:
需要定义一下文中所说的"real"的含义。
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Fri Oct 14 12:42:41 2011, 美东) 提到:
My understanding of that "real"ness is its existence physically.
For instance, sometimes we feel very afraid while watching a horror movie. The sensation is real, the feeling is real, or even the perception is real, but the thing that caused this feeling, namely, the horror scene in the movie, is not real. The sce
s fake. No one's really killed there, no blood is really shed there, etc.
Then back to Hell, when people believe it, or such as Christians who may even reinforce this idea of Hell, there are people who really fear it. But does Hell exist at all? It may exist in some believers' mind, like that person mentioned in the book "
lives, many masters", since he did many unethical things in one of his lifetimes. But once he was in that between-life state in hypnosis, and he was told that there was no Hell, then the Hell was dispelled instantly.
Is Hell physically there, or just an image in some human's mind?
Personally I don't believe Hell, and I don't want to use it to drive people into certain good deeds, out of fear of consequences, rather than out of pure love.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Fri Oct 14 12:46:40 2011, 美东) 提到:
This quote from the book is what I was talking about recently:
"It is essential to learn to confront the less pleasant aspects of existence
. Our job as meditators is to learn to be patient with ourselves, to see
ourselves in an unbiased way, complete with all our sorrows and inadequacies
. We have to learn to be kind to ourselves. In the long run, avoiding
unpleasantness is a very unkind thing to do to yourself. Paradoxically,
kindness entails confronting unpleasantness when it arises. One popular
human strategy for dealing with difficulty is autosuggestion: when something
nasty pops up, you convince yourself it is pleasant rather than unpleasant.
The Buddha's tactic is quite the reverse. Rather than hide it or disguise
it, the Buddha's teaching urges you to examine it to death. Buddhism advises
you not to implant feelings that you don't really have or avoid feelings
that you do have. If you are miserable you are miserable; this is the
reality, that is what is happening, so confront that. Look it square in the
eye without flinching. When you are having a bad time, examine the badness,
observe it mindfully, study the phenomenon and learn its mechanics. The way
out of a trap is to study the trap itself, learn how it is built. You do
this by taking the thing apart piece by piece. The trap can't trap you if it
has been taken to pieces. The result is freedom."
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Fri Oct 14 12:54:07 2011, 美东) 提到:
This is not a question on evidence, but more on faith, or which wisdom makes sense to me.
As some psychics, some Buddhism stories, or the past-life-regression stories say, there are many levels of spirits, and we can connect to them. All the stories may not be counted as hard evidence, but they can be felt with real-life manifestations, a
ey seem real.
On the contrary, Hell is not a logical concept for love, and it does not seem real.
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Fri Oct 14 14:26:27 2011, 美东) 提到:
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Fri Oct 14 14:48:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
It is real Buddhism. A quite nice book about Vipassana meditation practice.
:-)
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Fri Oct 14 14:55:14 2011, 美东) 提到:
你举的例子，sensation和horror scene都是real的，也许可以把horror这个词去掉。
sensation/feeling和scene都是真，它们可以代表佛法里说的名法和色法，这些法是在瞬间生灭
的。我们人的问题在于没有认识到瞬间生灭的事实，所以不明白苦，无我，和无常。
进一步讲，佛法的优势，或者佛法之所以最透彻，在于佛法不仅仅说了苦，无我和无常，
还告诉我们怎么可以灭苦，指出无明和贪爱在苦的产生中的重要性。佛法的八正道是可以
实现消灭贪嗔痴，真正实现解脱和自由的唯一的路。
四圣谛讲得是意识产生的最本质的规律，解决的是困扰我们意识和心灵的最本质的问题。
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grant (养心堂主) 于 (Sat Oct 15 14:37:38 2011, 美东) 提到:
这段转载的文字写得很好。
但是你的一些看法基本上还是停留在唯物主义的观点上。
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sat Oct 15 23:10:16 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thanks a lot for letting me know of Neale Donald Walsch and his book.
I googled to know that he started this talking by writing on a notebook.
This seems to be a useful tool.
The author of "Eat, Pray, Love", Elizabeth Gilbert, mentioned that she
often took out her notebook to ask her higher self on what she should
do. She is just a normal person, and the answers she got, although
seemingly simple, often helped her a lot. In the least, this seems to be
a way to connect to one's intuition.
三毛 has also done this. After Jose passed away, she was so heart-broken
that she tried many psychic ways to try to talk to him, including this
writing tool. She used to get many of her old friends who passed away to
posses her hand to write, in their own handwriting style. However, she
once got a very weird answer, and she asked that spirit who he is, and
he answered "Satan" or something alike, and she got very cautious that
this method may attract ill-spirits, so she gave it up.
Sonia Choquette also talked about how she learned to open her dialogues
with higher spirits and close the channels with the lower spirits,
whenever she wants, otherwise she used to be a blind receiver to absorb
many noises and nuisances.
Regarding “一切”唯心造, I am quite frankly not there yet. I am interested
to know more about it.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sat Oct 15 23:13:24 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thanks, JeanIris!
I guess that I haven't read enough books to understand what each concept
means exactly.
Could you tell me more about "瞬间生灭的事实". This seems to be the root of
all the understanding. Do you have any personal experiences regarding this?
Thank you!
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sat Oct 15 23:17:24 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thanks for the comment.
The concept 唯物主义 seems too abstract to me. I would say that given our
education in China, I have really believed that all others say about me,
or about a situation, must be a fact, given their experiences, their
authorities, and on and on. It's only later did I realize that those
sayings were not facts at all, but just thoughts, and I could easily
change my thoughts to change my life, which is so liberating and
fulfilling.
Could you tell me more about your personal understanding on this subject?
Thank you!
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:06:37 2011, 美东) 提到:
I just noticed something fun in 精华区:
问："南无佛"是什么意思?为什么读起来是"那摩佛"?
答："南无"是梵语Namo的音译，念成"那摩"，是保持原来古代的读音。
现代广东、福建一部分地区，仍保持这个古音，它的意义是"敬礼"。
今天印度人相见，互道"那摩悉对"，就是说："敬礼了"。
南无佛 turned out to be "Namaste", "the divine in me salutes the divine in
you", the most often used word in Yoga, etc.
Katie Byron was not very well educated, and she joked that she used to
think this phrase as "No mistake", and she thought that those people were
really wise, since there were indeed no mistakes in our lives. Everything
is just what it is.
Anyway, I am thinking about the translation problem. From Indian language
to Chinese, or to other languages, there could be many quite un-intuitive
glitches in the translations here or there. How could one know that s/he
is learning the authentic ideas from Buddha?
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:46:10 2011, 美东) 提到:
其实很有意思，我读完《The power of Now》，确实比较了基本其他书，
昨天又跟《A Course of Miracles》比较了一下。
感觉如下：
1. 人们对Meditation的理解确实差别极大，特别是New Age, 五花八门各种各样。
你上面提到的几种人，都是自认在Meditation.
2. 粗略看现在流行的打坐（Meditation),大概有几种（个人看法，不代表佛教观点），
A. Channeling. 比如上面你提到的 三毛的体验，还有Neale D Walsch,
以及 A Course of Miracles的作者。都是脑袋里“听到”什么声音。
B. 放松打坐，仅仅是放松，让心静下来 （自己实践的）
C. 放松打坐，不过放松后还有努力目标。（有人教的）
D. The Power of Now 的作者，他的经历十分特殊，不知道怎么回事，但是又有真实
的体验。
第A种，Channeling 最迷惑人，能让人迷信，因为让人得到一个神秘的答案，并且迷惑
在现象中。
有时候有些答案似乎很有智慧，比如CWG,我好多年都很喜欢他关于世界问题的解答。
但慢慢地能发现他跟真实的智慧不同，真实的智慧超越现象。而这些书还是围绕现象
来谈。
B种， 任何人心静下来多少都会有帮助，只是不会走太远，好像自学。
C种， 有方法，有目的，是专业打坐。各人的方法可能入手时不一样。如果要走的远，
这是必须。
D种， 那个作者，我认为他的见解都是很对的，很符合禅宗的，佛教的，虽然我个人不
会说他是究竟的，但是他的方向是对的。
看了the power of now后，我知道他比CWG和ACIM要好。
ACIM现在看来还是迷信一种外来的启示，而不是开启自身的智慧。
不过The Power of Now这本书的限制是，他的经历是无法模仿的，他给出的都是
他经过一个很特殊的机缘后，得到了很好的体验经历，进而得出清晰的结论，但
是没有教别人如何能获得同样的机缘。
就像古代的禅师，有些人是机缘到了后，听到破竹的声音而开悟等等。
这一点，我相信，有些真正明白的师父能安排适合每个人的情况的实验，
从而教人切实做到同样的事情。
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 11:29:26 2011, 美东) 提到:
Could you explain more about "一切唯心造，万法唯识"?
Meditation is indeed too broad a topic, even within Buddhist practice, there
are lots of variations. That's what Ven. Henepola Gunaratana mentioned in
his book "Mindfulness In Plain English", which I gave a link above. His
approach is also just one of them.
Those channeling examples are prevalent in many places and throughout the
history, and those people are more motivated to meditate. I am a talker
about it now though, as I don't meditate often.
Being able to talk to such spirits or intuitions or whatever people tend to
interpret them, and practicing meditation, have helped shaping human kind's
understanding of such issues. For instance, Carl Jung(卡尔·荣格)'s PhD
dissertation was motivated by his cousin sister's psychic experience to talk
to her spiritual guide. Later Jung met his own spiritual guide, Phil,
during his meditation, and lots of his theories were developed by this
connection. As Jung had published lots of papers, not all of them were
really consistent, but as he said, he was trying to point mirrors towards
that center fire or light, and the mirrors didn't really overlap well, but
the center light was there, and that was what he wanted to convey. What he
concluded though was the collective unconsciousness that all people posses
in our subconscious like the genes in our body. He also proposed that people
connect to this collective unconsciousness through dreams. So a similar
experience may lead to different interpretations.
There are many other contemporary people who have this kind of channeling
abilities, and their insights are very useful, although it's hard to say it'
t the ultimate one or not.
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Sun Oct 16 18:18:38 2011, 美东) 提到:
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yingkao (依靠) 于 (Sun Oct 16 22:19:34 2011, 美东) 提到:
这个很有趣，有什么drug可以降低多巴胺的话看来可以让人变得清新寡欲了
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 22:47:03 2011, 美东) 提到:
Besides Dopamine, there are other chemicals involved in love affairs.
Anti-depression medicines are tested to show their inhibition effects to
prevent one from falling in love.
Some other medicines may have the promoting effects to make people
restless though. I read an article in some magazine about a woman who
blamed her advancement to men due to the medicine cocktail that she had to
take. This is no joke.
Chemicals are the sensing and controlling agents within our bodies. Their
generations and movements show us how we feel the way we feel, but they
are not about the ultimate why yet.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 22:51:32 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thanks for the link. I guess that I still need more time and more reading to
understand this.
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yingkao (依靠) 于 (Sun Oct 16 22:55:34 2011, 美东) 提到:
Interesting, thanks
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SeeU (See you) 于 (Sun Oct 16 22:58:53 2011, 美东) 提到:
There are at least 2 ways:
1. Experiential: the experience of enlightenment can, and has been
reproduced over ages in different countries. When we compare these
experiences with what we thought the Buddha said, it confirms or put into
question our understanding.
2. Scholarly. Buddhist scriptures are recorded in two major languages: Pali
and Sanskrit, and translated into Chinese, Tibetan, English, etc. later.
Knowledge of Pali or Sanskrit will clarify what explanations are possible. e
.g. I sometimes refer to Pali texts to clarify the idea.
As to how Buddhist sutras come into existence, see
http://online-dhamma.net/anicca/books/six_collection.htm
for a historical account. Mahayana sutras are not included in this account.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 23:15:49 2011, 美东) 提到:
wow, you know Pali!
One of my Indian friends learned Sanskrit when he was little, and he said
that that language had very firm grammar structure, etc.
I have never thought of learning a language like that. How did you get
started on learning Buddhism and Pali?
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SeeU (See you) 于 (Sun Oct 16 23:25:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
A monk taught us Pali at our request. It is not uncommon for people in
Theravada tradition to learn Pali since their daily chanting is in Pali.
There is a system to teach Pali and tests for your Pali fluency in these
countries. You may find Pali class is offered in your Theravada centers as
well.
For us, we used the classical textbook "Introduction to Pali".
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 23:32:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
I see. That's good to know. I've checked that there are quite a few learning
groups near my area.
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Mon Oct 17 01:37:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
上次遗漏了一点历史知识。
唯识学派是当年唐三藏到印度取经、游学回国后，
根据其重点翻译的经典所建立。这工作包括他和其弟子的功劳。
这个体系主要就是讲八种识的功能、机制，
眼耳鼻舌身依有六识，然后加上后面两识--第七识和第八识。
因为唯识体系可以涉及很多很细的心理过程，内容太过庞杂，
唐僧为了让人易于学习，提纲挈领地写了一篇提纲，即是《八识规矩颂》
现在网上有很多种关于八识规矩颂的讲解注释。
你一下子就能搜出很多种，看看就知道了。
不过我们gyfm常常被师兄提醒的是：
要注意区分“了解”和“真知”不同。
如果真的知道唯识，应该是已经实证水平很高了，
亲自见到几种识互相作用的具体过程。
实际上我们并不确定那些流行注释的作者到底水平如何，
他们到底是听说的还是自己证实的，所以不可全面采信他们的说法。
读书只能保证大致知道有这么个说法。
要真知，只能靠实证。
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danalake (真的需要离开了) 于 (Mon Oct 17 04:17:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
人真的是太渺小了,你让别人吃点药的用心原来是这样的.
险恶呀,你.
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Mon Oct 17 05:53:16 2011, 美东) 提到:
The most helpful books I read so far are:
A MAP OF THE JOURNEY.
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/mapjourney6.pdf
and
SNOW IN THE SUMMER
http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/jotleeds.pdf
By Ven. Sayadaw U Jotika.
They helped me understand what Buddhism and Meditation are.
I benefited a lot from them.
I do not have quite matured experience of "瞬间生灭的事实",
since we must experience it in Vipassana meditation.
But more and more I understand and accept this is a fact
without doubt.
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Mon Oct 17 06:15:04 2011, 美东) 提到:
Dopamine antagonist
:-)
Dopamine has a lot of physiological functions in other systems, like heart,
blood. There are some side-effects when using Dopamine antagonist.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Mon Oct 17 09:05:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
danalake ah danalake, you could insert whatever you wanted to insert.
I see no limits in your misinterpretation, and your twisting is superb!
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Mon Oct 17 09:07:25 2011, 美东) 提到:
I see. Thank you so much for the recommendations!
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Mon Oct 17 09:08:56 2011, 美东) 提到:
Yes, I did see that there were lots of info about 《八识规矩颂》. I will
check them out. Thank you!
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danalake (真的需要离开了) 于 (Mon Oct 17 09:13:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
你这个人,你自己说过的话,自己怎么怎么就不认呢?
你一天这么说了,过几天你解释一下,我再过些天
用合理的逻辑联系一下,有什么不可以?
不知道跟你说什么,开玩笑不行啊?
我不想战胜你,你随便说吧,我都打算走了呢.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Mon Oct 17 09:19:03 2011, 美东) 提到:
I have never said a different thing, and you could insert whatever you had
in mind into my saying and then fight against what you've inserted.
It's not a debate between me and you, but between your own thoughts.
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Mon Oct 17 10:46:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Mon Oct 17 12:16:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
Can you explain a bit more on this difference?
Sometimes it's the panic of not knowing what to feel or think that's the
most paralyzing. Once we are aware that we are afraid, tensed, angry, etc,
that emotion is acknowledged, and then it fades.
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yingkao (依靠) 于 (Mon Oct 17 15:43:59 2011, 美东) 提到:
I may consider to have a try..
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Tue Oct 25 12:01:46 2011, 美东) 提到:
When in a deep meditation status,
a person can clearly see the rising of emotion.
when he feels the emotion of angry or fear, he know he "feel" the emotion,
but he will not identify himself as the emotion.
so he will not say I "am" (the emotion of) angry or afraid when actually he
just feel (the emotion of) angry or fear.
but in the daily life, people are not aware of that these two expression
represent two different things.
their cognition go directly from frist to second,
the cognition totally mixed up. that's the majoy illusion.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 13:17:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thanks for your explanation.
That difference is exactly what I have realized. This distinction does not happen only in meditation, but also in daily life.
All emotions, and thoughts, are not the "me" that I am identified with. I am more identified with the "witness" to feel those emotions and think those thoughts.
I still feel, and I know that my emotions help me move along in life. I enjoy happiness, I feel sorrows, and I let my anger to push me to stand up for myself or others. I also know that emotions pass.
I still think, and I have many thoughts that linger in my head, but I can talk to those thoughts to check whether I believe them or not, rather than seeing them as absolutely true, as I used to do.
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Tue Oct 25 13:44:03 2011, 美东) 提到:
That's great! and I agree with you that the distinction exist in daily life.
and I believe we can tell a person's consciousness level
by observing how deep and strong he identify himself with various phenominon.
or how much he detach himself from various phenominon.
and your expressions of "I still..." are very good!
Yes, I'm not going to die by realizing the truth. only make things better :)
though I believe there are still some more steps to achieve
before a person can say that he is totally liberated from all phenominon.
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Tue Oct 25 15:38:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
佛法里讲的是只有不断生灭的名色法，没有我，
也没有那个“witness”
：p
佛法里讲的thoughts就是名法，它是因为因缘不断生灭的，其实没有绝对的真实，唯一
真实的是其生灭的事实
与其说你以前认为它们是绝对真实的，不如说你没有认识到它是因缘生灭的
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Tue Oct 25 15:49:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
最后一句，只有涅槃以后的阿罗汉和佛陀可以：P
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 16:30:24 2011, 美东) 提到:
I notice that this point is what runsun used to accuse waichi with. waichi
seemed to have claimed the constancy of that witness, but runsun said that "
it's totally not so, even that witness is instantly disappearing and
appearing".
I don't know how this understanding would affect my views on the world or
myself yet.
Could you tell me something more specific, or based on your personal
experiences, about this point?
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 16:35:17 2011, 美东) 提到:
Also, regarding this point below, I guess that I don't quite understand "因
缘生灭" yet. Could you explain a bit more?
When I said earlier that "thoughts are not necessarily true", I meant that
they might not reflect the reality, and hence false. However, those thoughts
are "real", as they appeared in my head. They are like some statements,
which I can choose to believe or not. Of course the thought that "I believe
this thought" itself is also a thought, but I can choose the thoughts that
benefit me, rather than sabotage me.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 16:38:45 2011, 美东) 提到:
Do you mean that "认识到它是因缘生灭的" is something that "只有涅槃以后的阿
罗汉和佛陀" can do?
What are the levels of the Buddhists on this board? Is there a chart to let
everyone know where they are on this journey?
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Tue Oct 25 17:10:18 2011, 美东) 提到:
So far, I feel most of the people on this board
is at the very early stage regarding 实修。
WAICHI looks like having an advanced level of 实修。
However, people are questioning that whether or not he is following
the basic principles of buddhism.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 17:17:07 2011, 美东) 提到:
Did you imply that "涅槃 is dying" while saying "I'm not going to die by
realizing the truth" below?
涅槃 is translated as nirvana in English. I don't know which word (涅槃 or
nirvana) is more authentic or closer to its original meaning in Buddha's
language.
I don't think that 涅槃 is dying though, although I can't say that it's not,
either.
In Jill Taylor's book "Stroke of Insight", she described her experiences
during a stroke, where her left brain and right brain alternatively took
charge of her, when she didn't feel the boundary of her own body, etc, that
felt exactly like nirvana. She used to be a very successful neurologist to
understand the brains from outside, and this stroke experience let her
understand the brains inside out. It was not easy though. It took her 8
years to recover, to gain some basic living abilities, with her mother's
loving care. As hard as it was, it could also be her most enlightening
experience to make her be very sensitive to the energy that people bring to
their environment, etc. There are people accusing her for using the word
nirvana as they thought that her experience could not be. Well, any way, her
messages based on her experiences are so loving and inspiring. Her Ted Talk
video is here:
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 17:26:38 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thanks for letting me know.
I don't like GYFM's dictatorship and idolization, but I can see how it may
help advance some followers' practice, not because of QH's ability, but
because of the believers' faith.
Faith and the desire to learn and advance is the driving force for one to
improve his/her practice, not the teachers, although good teachers are very
helpful. When the student is ready, the teachers will appear.
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SeeU (See you) 于 (Tue Oct 25 18:29:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
Nirvana is the Sanskrit word used in Buddhism, and English adopted that word
. 涅盘 is the usual Chinese translation. There are 2 types of 涅盘 in early
Buddhism: one while an arahant is still alive, another after he dies. The
difference is whether he still has a body in this world.
The meaning of "nirvana" is "cessation of suffering" in early Buddhism,
where "suffering" includes the coarse, as well as subtle, suffering. The
subtle suffering is always being oppressed by the rise and fall of mind and
matter; you have no control over it. There is no lasting satisfaction nor
security in rising and falling phenomena.
I read Jill Taylor's experience with a lot of interest. Although Buddhist
doctrine would immediately rule out that enlightenment is possible through a
physical cause (brain damage), I won't jump to conclusions yet. So how
close is her experience to Nirvana?
She experienced euphoria while seeing the world as constantly rising and
falling phenomena. Hmm, this is similar to seeing the nature of suffering.
How about cause of suffering? I don't remember her talking about it.
In Buddhism, Nirvana can be experienced only by cutting off the cause of
suffering: attachment to mind and matter due to wrong views of self, etc.
The experience of Nirvana is an irreversible event and you are changed
forever. Unshakable faith in the Four Noble Truth will arise as a result of
personal insight experience-when there is no cause of suffering(ignorance is
expelled by direct insight), suffering ceases. There is no mind or matter
rising or falling. Though Buddhist sutras describe it as "mind liberated
from this world", it's better to think of it as a metaphor rather than
literal description. There is no doubt about what happens after death,
either.
Since her description doesn't include these characteristics, I doubt that
she has experienced Nirvana in the Buddhist sense. But I didn't read her
book in detail, so I could have missed important clues.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 20:57:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
This is very good reading! Thank you!
I'd like to ask a few more questions:
1. "The experience of Nirvana is an irreversible event and you are changed
forever."
So who can be said to have achieved that? Is that only after dying or can it
happen when they are also alive?
2. "Unshakable faith in the Four Noble Truth will arise as a result of
personal insight experience-when there is no cause of suffering(ignorance is
expelled by direct insight), suffering ceases."
This direct insight seems to be very powerful, and I want to know how it's
defined, or whether you can describe it a bit more to let me know how it
differs from the usual wisdom that elderly or wise people have.
3. "There is no doubt about what happens after death, either."
Do you mean that people reach the state of nirvana automatically after death
since there's no mind any more, any way?
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Tue Oct 25 20:58:32 2011, 美东) 提到:
不是，不过我那句话没考虑别人的感受和知识背景，让人误解了。
这恐怕是我需要注意的地方。解释一下：
其实那句话是个讽刺的意思，是说有些人，包括一些被人奉为导师的人，
都会认为如果成了阿罗汉就不能成佛，这个意思近于认为涅磐了就变成
某种程度的disability的存在了。(比如SeeU在本版就传达过印顺导师这么认定）
所以他们和其追随者就会劝人不要修成阿罗汉，不要解脱。否则成不了佛了。
我那句话的意思就是对这个意思的反话，意思类似于说：你怕什么，死不了！
正是他们散布的这种没有根据的恐惧，导致那些人都只敢谈佛法，不敢修佛法。
就好象那些国内共产风时那样，还没有打出粮食呢，就开始担心万一粮食太多，
以后吃不完怎么办。基本都是伪科学，伪佛法。但是这种人很有欺骗性。
这正是我一直批判的一点，他们劝人学佛，同时有暗暗地把那些梯子都抽掉，
告诉人说别成阿罗汉，成了阿罗汉就成不了佛了。
他们表面教的和潜意识里传达的都是两种不同的东西。
我就说，他们这不是根本上就否定佛教了么，因为佛难道不是教弟子都成罗汉，
都解脱的么？难道现在他们是比佛还更明白更伟大的一种导师么？怪了怪了。
不过另一方面，涅磐，寂灭，这些词，因为人们没有经历过，所以容易根据脑袋进行联
想，也是可以理解。这是另外的话，不表。
不过，这个观点我不想强加于人，只是不得不说，因为从来没想到，
自称学佛的人，竟然会这么教人。
但另一方面，我不会因此就认定别人引用的经典就也都是错的，
只能像耶稣当年对弟子谈到法利赛人那样，
你们可以听他们所说的，不过不要学他们所做的。
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Tue Oct 25 21:06:45 2011, 美东) 提到:
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Tue Oct 25 21:15:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
假设我们认为有
神秘的灵界，
有高层次的灵/力量可以为你加持，
但有能力的不见得是好的。
倡导或者不经意鼓励了个人崇拜的，
我觉得都要警惕。 这些是削弱你自己的灵性/力量而不是让你走上一条
正确的道路。
就好象毒品可以有能力使你HAPPY,但着迷了就是一条不归路。
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Tue Oct 25 21:30:16 2011, 美东) 提到:
你没注意我后面一段么，那个意思就是禅宗里讲的，佛来佛砍，魔来魔砍。
只要你保证永远对自己真实，就够了。
但是你能否做到，就再说了。
这是从信念上说。
如果从认知上说，所谓的神秘，只是你不懂，懂得的事情，都不是神秘。
电，在发现以前，是神秘的。
力，在牛顿以前也是神秘的，牛顿必须解释“为什么要用力这个概念”，
而现在人觉得天经地义。
所以说，学佛是大丈夫事，就是说，你要自己去发现，而不是生活在
老师修好的花园里。
当然，这并不是鼓励乱撞，人还是要对自己负责。要边学法理边实践。
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SeeU (See you) 于 (Tue Oct 25 21:30:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:33:45 2011, 美东) 提到:
关于dictatorship,必须区分负责任和控制。
表现上虽然有相似之处，不过实际指向是不同的，
一个师父负责任，是说他既然承诺了要带你穿过某些道路，到达目的地，
那么他就会这样执行而不改变，并且按此目的要求你。
一个人是控制的，暴君或独裁，是指，他只会按照自己的喜怒哀乐
任意指使别人。完全没有目的地，一切都跟着自己的情绪跑。
独裁者是此类。
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:33:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thank you so much for all the info.
Now that for the people who achieved nirvana while they were alive, when
they died, where would they go? They'll be free from reincarnations, right?
But what would their purposes be to exist in that dimension? I am asking
because for normal people who will reincarnate anyway, life has a purpose to
learn, then how about them?
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:36:42 2011, 美东) 提到:
What I know about GYFM and QH is only from short reports online and the
discussions here, indeed I can't say much about it.
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:41:15 2011, 美东) 提到:
我理解。
我也是碰到W和CH后，才知道世界上还是有真正能负责的人。
特别是跟W互动。其实我原来在国内呆那么多年，心里很不踏实。
说真的，没见过能负责的人。
人人都是泥菩萨过河，自己还照顾不了。怎么对别人负责。
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:48:44 2011, 美东) 提到:
我觉得这么理解就是深刻理解和接受三法印
无常，苦，无我
彻底认识这三个必须在修观中才行的
runsun是对的
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:54:18 2011, 美东) 提到:
佛法讲得一切的物质和精神现象都是因缘而生的
就是条件
我们人感觉到的thought即使一个，也是无数名法了，其中包括了一系列的过程
其中就有以前提到的受有分流影响的，就是潜意识影响
thought发生后再去选择的时候已经晚了其实
我们要是想benefit，在作意那一步就要有所作为的
姐姐可以看看
阿毗达摩概要精解
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:55:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
就我的经验来讲，runsun是错的，
但并不是每句话都错。这正是复杂所在。
如果他但凡真有实证，根本不可能再否定金刚经，坛经等等。
根本不可能否定禅宗。
禅宗公案不是说不清，而是不应该说，就好象佛的无记不是说不清，而是不应该说。
因为说了后，人们会从字面上去理会并且记忆，然后就自欺欺人认为自己真懂佛法了。
然后妄论大乘小乘。
要亲自实证的人，就会知道经典所言不虚。
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:57:11 2011, 美东) 提到:
Here's one more question on samadhi.
I understand that it's not a normal conscious state, and it takes long term
practice to really know what it is. At this stage though, I have a question
on how it's perceived by our bodies.
Everything we know/think/feel/perceive/... is not an abstract concept that
exists by itself, but through the perception of our bodies. It's somewhat
similar to the Quantum Mechanics in that the observer is needed to observe,
but it also changes the thing to be observed.
My question is how one can know that samadhi is achieved, or more
specifically how the body, made of flesh, is changed to help achieve that
state of samadhi chemically, psychologically, and physically.
Many contemporary researches on such issues focus on the how's and they have
provided some understanding.
For instance, when falling in love, one would produce much more hormones to
alter one's emotional state, appetite, perceptions, and so on. Those
hormones are the vehicles to carry out such tasks to make one change,
although they are not the ultimate cause of such changes.
Similarly, when Jill Taylor was under the stroke, her left brain lost its
rational control sporadically, and during those breaks, she felt as if her
body was without a boundary, as if she was blended with the universe (as we
can see, the left brain provides the functionality to define the ego and
self, which seems limiting but is also needed for one's survival in the
physical world). Her specific brain damage altered her physical perception,
and she reached an once-in-a-life-time conscious state. When she's recovered
from the stroke, she tried to remain in that beautiful state by letting go
many unnecessary thoughts and so on, and I think that she is still there.
Then in samadhi, I believe that the physical body should also reflect
certain changes, involving hormones, the suppression or activation of
certain parts of the brains, muscular or perspiratory changes, and so on.
Those changes reflect the "how", but not the ultimate "why". And yet I am
interested to know more about this "how". If this "how" is somewhat defined,
then either it's reached by samadhi, or by brain damage, or by other
potential causes, would they be different ways to reach nirvana?
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Tue Oct 25 23:58:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
单有faith和desire在佛法里叫做有信无慧：p
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:01:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
Her experience was not Nirvana
：-）
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:08:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
你对第二个问题的回答不够准确：P
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:10:32 2011, 美东) 提到:
Life has a purpose to learn不一定成立
如果不成立你前面的陈述和推理都可以被推翻了：-）
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:18:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
He can not answer your question， haha
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:19:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
:-) I should say that I believe that my life, or reincarnations, if any, for
myself, has a purpose for my soul to learn, either being a Buddhist or not.
I'd like to know whether all souls have a purpose or whether Buddha(s) have
a purpose being in nirvana. Would they still help others as souls? I don't
think that they are idle, but rather they manifest themselves in some forms,
such as those spiritual guides who are making differences in peoples' lives
. What are they for?
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:24:04 2011, 美东) 提到:
对。
不过要知道什么叫慧，以及佛法为什么讲信-愿-行。
什么叫行？行是指实修。而佛法的慧是通过禅定后才有的。
没有实修得来的，只是佛法知识，而不是智慧。
所以：
没有实修的人，虽然嘴里说佛法，其实是既没有信，也没有慧的。
哪怕他能背一千本佛书，也是书袋而已。
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:25:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
你说谁呢？哈哈
据我所知人家实修的不错，：-）
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:27:27 2011, 美东) 提到:
实修的人竟然否定金刚经，坛经。
我就不知道修哪里去了。
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:30:29 2011, 美东) 提到:
关键是having a purpose是主动还是被动的
如果成佛也可以算一种purpose的话，那么可以说绝大部分的人没有：）
佛陀成佛的时候purpose应该是灭苦，Nirvana不是purpose，Nirvana是一种实现灭苦的
状态
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:31:21 2011, 美东) 提到:
他们说得比你说的有道理的多，即使是逻辑和论证这个层次：P
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:49:01 2011, 美东) 提到:
正好是match了想象力的误导。
他逻辑上说的很好（顶多是似乎很好），
而实际上看不懂大乘经典，这本身就说明他在用想象填充那些空缺。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:50:56 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:54:49 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:56:04 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 00:58:34 2011, 美东) 提到:
这就要到处验证了。
你也知道w写的四证。我看此外没别的办法了。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 01:01:46 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 01:10:21 2011, 美东) 提到:
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Wed Oct 26 01:11:44 2011, 美东) 提到:
虽然很多时候我和FREEMAN的思维方式差很远，
但我现在觉得要否定经典经文还是要慎重。
而且我觉得小乘的主体思想（从RUNSUN/SEEU那里看的）
要挑起宗教救世的责任也担不起。 大乘的思想我觉得是进步。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 01:12:01 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 01:21:35 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 01:29:11 2011, 美东) 提到:
在我看来，大乘经典和禅宗公案正好起个视力表的作用，
因为小乘经典已经被人当成视力表一样背诵下来了。比新东方还新东方。
你问个问题，他都能回答，也不知道到底是自己真的看见的，还是脑袋里背诵出来的。
上、下、左、右！涅磐，寂灭！视力表背得滚瓜烂熟。
现在拿个大乘视力表，他一看，认不出来。就露馅了。
------------------
不过也不能完全类比为新东方，
因为新东方的托福毕竟 是真题，背得越多，就是懂得越多。
而佛经只是语言，不是真实，在佛教里有各种比喻，
1. 比如佛经是指月的手指，不是月亮，应该透过指头看月亮。（楞严经）
2. 佛经是菜单，不是菜本身，单纯背菜单还是说食不饱。（坛经）
3. 佛经是视力表，会背视力表并不表示你视力就好了。
而是相反，如果你如法修行，视力真的提高了，视力表自然一目了然。
1,2,3都不是否认读经典的作用，只是说它不能代替真实修行过程。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 01:36:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 10:10:46 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 10:54:59 2011, 美东) 提到:
"比如佛经是指月的手指，不是月亮，应该透过指头看月亮。"
This is the best analogy.
Carl Jung said the same thing about his study. He just tried to hold the
mirrors to reflect the light in the center. He could have inconsistencies
between the mirrors that he made up with, but the central light is there.
The Jungian followers commented that Jung's approaches or models are like a
map in the uncharted area (subconscious), however the map is the not the
area. Another person may find it easier to explore his own area, hopefully
with the help of the map, but he can definitely find new things in this area
, or new regions in this wide area.
Practice really is a personal thing. Others can guide, comment, or criticize
, but unless one knows it by heart but not just by mind, it's not known yet.
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 11:08:09 2011, 美东) 提到:
zan!
I like 'but unless one knows it by heart but not just by mind, it's not
known yet'
:p
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 11:18:59 2011, 美东) 提到:
说着同样的道理，我的就不Ma，TrueStory的就直接Mark,
看来我的做法上还有待改进.
哈哈，我不是在乎那个M. 不过还是有待改进。
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 11:19:47 2011, 美东) 提到:
hahaha
:P
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 12:31:33 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 12:43:29 2011, 美东) 提到:
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Wed Oct 26 12:46:48 2011, 美东) 提到:
不被她M 还好点，
她把这个当权利， 以为别人就该对她感恩。
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 12:51:45 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 12:58:07 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 12:59:29 2011, 美东) 提到:
我那是开玩笑，这点都看不出来？ 难道我真的是在意那个伪币么？
其实我并不认为她就不对，我还是认为iris的目的上是在追求真实的，有价值的东西，
通常不M的原因，可能有个人原因，也可能有认识上的原因。
个人原因可能是，我态度不是很平和，即使说的是对的，里面也掺杂了不好的气氛，
对方当然就偏不愿意被强迫。呵呵。
认识上的原因当然可能是因为，确实不认同。这也很正常。
----------------------
我这段话的意思表示我已经认识到自己的问题了。此外还有什么意思么？
我觉得Iris 都已经看出我这层意思了。
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:00:40 2011, 美东) 提到:
same feeling here！
：p
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:01:19 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:11:21 2011, 美东) 提到:
"seeU修慈心观，可引小动物环绕"
I want to know more about this!
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:14:15 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:17:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:31:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:35:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
其实你也不是什么高僧大德，除了幼稚的在一些人后面跟帖赞外，
或者莫名其妙批评别人一通外，
也没有什么高深的认识，既然FREEMAN都说了，
为什么就不可以随手MARK了， 鼓励别人，也是功德。
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:38:21 2011, 美东) 提到:
I searched SeeU's posts on this board, and he has posted a lot:
孝顺父母的反思
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31448527_3.html
岁次庚寅，时序小雪 (belated /pat/pat)
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31450121_3.html
慈心与男女感情
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31457571_3.html
more relevant discussions:
Death or reincarnation:
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Wisdom/31464373.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31464995_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31465041_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31476075_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31484265_3.html
others:
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31474603_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31474925_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31475033_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31479305_3.html
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31484483_3.html
But still, I haven't found the one talking about his own experiences. SeeU,
can you talk more about that?
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:42:40 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:46:51 2011, 美东) 提到:
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:48:26 2011, 美东) 提到:
你只要不要老提WAICHI,QH就好了。
你已经修了这么多年， 为什么不可以自信的把你的认识
就好好说出来。
大家想看到你自己的东西。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:50:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
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Yisu (大头教主) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:51:39 2011, 美东) 提到:
同感， 他在这里讲的我一点没看出来跟青海有什么关系。。可是他好像要不时不时地
联系一下就不自信似的。。
有些说的蛮好的， 鼓励一下。。：）
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:53:14 2011, 美东) 提到:
我从来不认为自己是高僧大德，我在这个版就是学习的，而且我确实学习了很多东西
我也从来不觉得自己幼稚，我对自己的看法不会因为你的评价而改变的
我赞美别人真心诚意，我乐意，我喜欢表达自己对别人的赞美
我是不是在批评别人是你的评价，我在表达看法而已
我不认为自己的认识高深，我只表达自己的认识
至于我怎么对待freeman08，他满意比你满意重要
说的够清楚了么？
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:55:02 2011, 美东) 提到:
为什么对你们来说评价别人永远比讨论问题重要呢？：p
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:56:17 2011, 美东) 提到:
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:58:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
佛法不是这么教导的
佛法说没有人可以伤害我们除了我们自己
佛法说我们不可能伤害别人的时候不伤害自己
何必对此斤斤计较？
：p
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Wed Oct 26 13:59:32 2011, 美东) 提到:
他已经说了为什么meiyouM上， 因为他说的道理和别人一样。
---
“说的够清楚了么”
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:00:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:00:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
freeman08后来的回帖您没看见麽？
你是他麽？
哈哈
我都知道他对我什么印象，他说的也很清楚了
需要您来代言麽？
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:01:04 2011, 美东) 提到:
那学佛就学歪了：p
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:01:16 2011, 美东) 提到:
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:02:00 2011, 美东) 提到:
wrong！
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:02:15 2011, 美东) 提到:
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:03:37 2011, 美东) 提到:
完全可以：）
我不在乎她怎么评价我
不会再回她帖子的
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Yisu (大头教主) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:03:55 2011, 美东) 提到:
一个回帖０.１个伪币， 等攒够１０个， Freeman就有包子拉。。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:05:39 2011, 美东) 提到:
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:07:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
这个根本不是什么他对你的印象问题，
而是别人问你你怎么不MARK你的态度有问题。
板斧不是让你来SHOWOFF的， 或者让别人认可你的，
而是你为大家服务 在适当时候通过MARK认可大家的付出的。
什么都是关于你吗？ 关与别人对你的映像？等等？
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:08:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果您觉得针对我很有乐趣，大可以随便
我该怎么做自己还是怎么做自己
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:16:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
他会来回答姐姐你的问题的：p
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:23:37 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:27:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:28:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:33:26 2011, 美东) 提到:
：-）
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akju (金斗爸) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:54:03 2011, 美东) 提到:
现在版面有讨论修行的吗？貌似比较像查经班
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 14:55:56 2011, 美东) 提到:
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akju (金斗爸) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:02:09 2011, 美东) 提到:
不是说seeu修慈心观吗，应该算有实修体验吧
对了，为什么我一冥想就会睡着啊
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:04:45 2011, 美东) 提到:
昏沉，掉举：-）
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akju (金斗爸) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:05:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
有什么办法不睡？
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Yisu (大头教主) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:06:38 2011, 美东) 提到:
先睡一觉. :)
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akju (金斗爸) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:07:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
我早上睡醒了可是很多事情，哪里又功夫去冥想了。。。
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Yisu (大头教主) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:10:15 2011, 美东) 提到:
饿的时候才需要吃饭, 最应该冥想的时候就是事多的时候， 你没事安安静静地冥想个
啥。。:)
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akju (金斗爸) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:12:01 2011, 美东) 提到:
我就是闲的无聊，甚至灌水都没兴趣的时候，才会想到冥想
事多的话就得去做事儿啊
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Yisu (大头教主) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:14:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
你得把冥想也当一件事才行， 或者干事的时候你也可以冥想也行..
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:23:48 2011, 美东) 提到:
姐姐
check this！
http://www.lovingkindnessctdownload.org/web/bhikkhu-bodhi/item/
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:25:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thank you!
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:26:17 2011, 美东) 提到:
Which IDs are 有实修体验的, in your opinion? Can you list them or point me
to some of their earlier posts? Thanks in advance!
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taipingnan (泰平之南) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:38:38 2011, 美东) 提到:
干事的时候，能认真做事，不乱想就好
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:40:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
meditation可以帮助我们提升我们做事情时候心的品质的：p
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taipingnan (泰平之南) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:42:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
不想乱, 不乱想
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:45:23 2011, 美东) 提到:
哈，我说的是每天meditation比如早晨起来1个小时
可以提升我们日常生活工作里面做事情时候心的品质的
这种方法对付我们不能concentrated，喜欢胡思乱想很有效
本身学习佛法就是purify我们的心的
：）
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taipingnan (泰平之南) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:50:23 2011, 美东) 提到:
我答复的是关于做事要专心，别乱想
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SeeU (See you) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:51:24 2011, 美东) 提到:
Functional MRI has shed some light on the effect of meditation on the brain
http://psyphz.psych.wisc.edu/web/research.html
Study on mindfulness has also found that mindfulness practice is most
effective in perceiving micro-expressions of others; even better than
trained special agents (aka spies :-) who need to read people quickly as a
profession for quality intelligence.
These pioneering research are at an early stage and no paradigm has emerged
yet. At a minimum, they validate the effect of Buddhist meditation by some
objective tests.
Interestingly, Buddhist teaching describe the material change as the result,
and not the cause, of samadhi. The cause of samadhi is a change in mental
states by overcoming the 5 hindrances. The first stage of samadhi, first
jhana, has 5 prominent mental characteristics: initial application of mind,
sustained application of mind, rapture, joy, and one-pointedness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhy%C4%81na_in_Buddhism#The_Rupa_J
The Buddhist explanation is that jhana-mind is subtler than the ordinary
state of mind, and produces lighter, purer and brighter material. The
subjective feeling is the mind is joyful, stable, capable, and bright, and
the physical body also feels light and stable. After I lost my samadhi, the
heaviness and coarseness of the physical body became apparent in comparison,
which I didn't experience before. My personal experience of access
concentration verifies the descriptions in Buddhist teaching.
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Wed Oct 26 15:59:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
好得，我不小心引申了一下。：p
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 16:06:07 2011, 美东) 提到:
Yes, I heard about the FMRI monitoring on the meditating brains.
Similarly, 禅武医 shows its effects on human health.
http://www.chanwuyi.org/index.do
http://www.chanwuyi.com/
When 德建禅师 came to my town, I went to his talk. One of his students was
also there to talk (陈瑞燕 香港中文大学心理学系教授、博士生导师、心智综合复
康中心总监). They belong to 少林. She used to publish quite a few papers on
this kind of research. They talked about the most basic approach: breathing.
Regarding this "Interestingly, Buddhist teaching describe the material
change as the result", I totally agree. I want to know the how's, although I
'd also like to know the why's later.
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taipingnan (泰平之南) 于 (Wed Oct 26 16:25:10 2011, 美东) 提到:
a smart people like to think, sometime is bothered by thinking
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 16:53:48 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 16:54:41 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 17:07:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
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wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶) 于 (Wed Oct 26 18:29:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
puppeteer 有， 从他的帖子看他自己说有进展。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 18:39:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 22:07:40 2011, 美东) 提到:
I really don't know where I am, but I just want to know more.
Well, any way, SeeU and freeman08 are whom I have been talking with the most
, besides JeanIris.
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 22:10:02 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 22:15:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
I am not a Buddhist. I just like reading stuff and adjusting my own thoughts.
I'd really like to know more about "实修体验".
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 22:16:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
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SeeU (See you) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:12:15 2011, 美东) 提到:
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Wisdom/31442449.html
http://www.mahabodhi.org/zh-TW/downloads/master_talks_2.xml
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:29:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
wow! Let me take more time to read it. Very interesting!
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:33:33 2011, 美东) 提到:
hehe, I answered this question before.
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Wisdom/31529545_0.html
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:36:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:39:45 2011, 美东) 提到:
:-)
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Reo ( 神 愛 世 人) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:40:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
type english with me
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:43:16 2011, 美东) 提到:
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Reo ( 神 愛 世 人) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:47:33 2011, 美东) 提到:
where is your buddy waterer today
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:49:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
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Reo ( 神 愛 世 人) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:50:31 2011, 美东) 提到:
do you think he is liumang?
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Wed Oct 26 23:57:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
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Reo ( 神 愛 世 人) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:01:19 2011, 美东) 提到:
first time I hear people commenting waterer nicely
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:02:35 2011, 美东) 提到:
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Reo ( 神 愛 世 人) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:04:47 2011, 美东) 提到:
mark mark
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:06:34 2011, 美东) 提到:
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Reo ( 神 愛 世 人) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:07:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
keqi keqi
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:10:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
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Reo ( 神 愛 世 人) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:13:14 2011, 美东) 提到:
after you send me your pic :)
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:20:00 2011, 美东) 提到:
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Reo ( 神 愛 世 人) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:20:57 2011, 美东) 提到:
色既是空
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 00:31:31 2011, 美东) 提到:
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bdbd (kakali) 于 (Thu Oct 27 08:03:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
请问练慈心禅的时候，美眉会主动接近你吗？
好奇而已。
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Thu Oct 27 09:26:46 2011, 美东) 提到:
good question! :-)
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Yisu (大头教主) 于 (Thu Oct 27 09:59:02 2011, 美东) 提到:
不矛盾， 冥想本身就不是想， 更不是乱想。
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Thu Oct 27 10:51:02 2011, 美东) 提到:
This experience sounds so nice.
I used to take a hypnosis session, and it could be the closest feeling I had to this. It would be nice to be in that state more.
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SeeU (See you) 于 (Thu Oct 27 15:33:48 2011, 美东) 提到:
I haven't tried it on girls. Hmmmm
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bigfool (fool) 于 (Thu Oct 27 17:59:41 2011, 美东) 提到:
这种动静打做两截的东西，也就小罗冰当会事
如果要靠修什么才有慈心，平时没见好，
那叫修分裂。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 19:31:11 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Thu Oct 27 21:08:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 21:15:34 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Thu Oct 27 21:56:09 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Thu Oct 27 22:10:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
修慈心禅到底是什么效果，什么次第我就不懂了。
要打成一片，行住坐卧都是禅（大乘说法:)也不是一天两天的事情，不好评论。
84000法门，有些只是调节。我们不是高人，也没能力评论。
我只是反对robbin以此作为有实修，并进而认为这种实修就可以用来作为反驳经典的根
据，这样一种论证方法。
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Thu Oct 27 22:19:58 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 22:44:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 22:46:54 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 22:48:01 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Thu Oct 27 22:57:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 23:04:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Thu Oct 27 23:20:53 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 23:23:39 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Thu Oct 27 23:29:09 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 23:32:01 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Thu Oct 27 23:35:48 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 23:37:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Thu Oct 27 23:39:06 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TheMatrix (TheMatrix) 于 (Fri Oct 28 02:02:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
我觉得freeman对人没有什么成见。你对人也没有什么成见。
不过我觉得你常犯糊涂，有点认人不清。
好像是为了高尚的教条而蒙蔽了心中真正的所喜所恶。俗称“迂腐”。
容易做“亲者痛仇者快”的事情。
WaiChi好像也说过你吧？有没有？
freeman其实也有一点这个毛病，但是你比他多一些。
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Fri Oct 28 02:17:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
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bdbd (kakali) 于 (Fri Oct 28 07:04:30 2011, 美东) 提到:
你怎么老想让别人知道点东西？是因为你觉得知道得比他正确还是知道得比他多？你怎
么知道他需要知道那些东西？
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Fri Oct 28 11:26:33 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Fri Oct 28 15:19:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Fri Oct 28 16:10:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thanks a lot for sharing! I have enjoyed knowing more of your personal
experiences.
As to Carl Jung, his work is more in the realm of science: there are
systematic training procedures for the therapists based on his theory, and
there are many scholars studying his work. What I understand is only from
reading a couple of books on his biography or others' comments on him. Carl
Jung also thought highly of DaoDeJing: he drew his inspirations from it, and
connected the dots between the wisdom from East and West.
I used to record my dreams for a couple of weeks after I read his book,
whenever I woke up. I noticed some patterns; namely, they are a mixture of
my daily life and my emotions. I could indeed understand myself better. When
I stopped recording my dreams the first thing after I woke up though, I
didn't remember my dreams any more. Dreams are easy to forget.
I then googled 莲生活佛, and I saw very mixed comments on him. If some of
the accusations were true, then he seemed very manipulative or even sexually
abusive towards his patients or students, using their fears and admiration.
I am not sure whether you know that. Have you met him?
With all that said, I do not know which theory or guidance is the ultimate
one yet, because I am not where they point to yet. It's fun to explore for
now.
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Fri Oct 28 16:20:26 2011, 美东) 提到:
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Fri Oct 28 16:21:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
Also, I am not saying that 莲生活佛 does not have any special ability. It's
just that when his morality is questionable, his words are perhaps also
questionable. Perhaps he has some special abilities, and I want to know more
of those as well.
Carl Jung is not a saint, either. He had multiple affairs throughout his
life with his patients, in so-called "transference" phenomenon, often
happening in therapy, although he had been with his wife, mostly happily,
till the end. As introspective as he was, he acknowledged his
characteristics, but he did it anyway. He did draw inspirations from all of
his patients to discover more of subconscious though. He treated each case
as a new case to learn together with the patient.
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TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖) 于 (Fri Oct 28 16:23:11 2011, 美东) 提到:
"神游中讲了完整的梦修习方法。入梦是一个阶段。"
I googled a bit just now, but I didn't seem to find a good excerpt on that.
Can you find one for me? Thank you!
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SeeU (See you) 于 (Fri Oct 28 16:34:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
莲生活佛 has been declared 'fake' Buddhist by more than one Buddhist masters
. See Wikipedia entry for 'Fu Fo Wai Dao' He doesn't represent the Buddhist
tradition in any way.
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luobing (萝冰) 于 (Fri Oct 28 16:49:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
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freeman08 (平常心) 于 (Fri Oct 28 17:37:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
其实我不关心莲生活佛到底是什么，以及他有什么过错等等，真的不关心。
去他网站看他的录像只是因为本版当时有人提到，我好奇去看看。
然后正好就看到那一段他讲梦的事情。整个场景都很好笑，但是一点也不沉闷。
至于后来网上传的他真假佛法的事情，我真的不关心，
所以，对我来说，只是知道有他这个人，以及一些很有意思的现象。
这个兴趣就好象有人说特异功能表演，我就去看看，
但是我又看不出名堂，也没准备深究，就只当成是一个现象吧。就是到此而已。
但是我从来没去过他们的会所。
至于荣格，佛洛伊德，我觉得有什么事情都是正常。
因为ego的问题并没有解决。印象中，好像佛洛伊德两次昏倒都跟荣格有关。
实际上心理学就没有解决ego的问题。
所以到马斯洛讲“自我实现”，就是一个很迷惑的东西。
因为如果不清楚“什么叫自我”，谈什么“自我实现”?
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JeanIris (Iris) 于 (Fri Oct 28 20:40:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
Morality is related to meditation in Buddhism.
Being mindful should also be applied to the well establishment of morality (
five precepts). |
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