c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | |
l**********l
发帖数: 4468 | 2 这个排序是综合评分以后的排序？
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: 顺序居然是335i
|
d******g
发帖数: 6966 | 3 那个视频我也看了,我觉得那个人有点奇怪.
先不提ATS,这个MT的人以前有一个C250 vs. 328i的视频,那个视频里的评语和这次C350
vs 335i里面的完全相反.
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: 顺序居然是335i
|
x*b
发帖数: 5723 | 4 其实你说得很对，F30综合起来还不错，但是确实没有E46到E90那种质的飞跃。
可以看看F30Post上老外的讨论，也挺有意思：
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772832
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: 顺序居然是335i
|
x*b
发帖数: 5723 | 5 有一个人我觉得回复的非常不错：
Originally Posted by verbs
I'm someone who has owned a CTS-V, E60 M5, and both an E92 335i and now an
F30 335i (M-sport).
Here are my thoughts. BMW has been impacted by a few things. Changes in
consumer tastes/preferences, safety requirements, and regulations.
To cope with this, BMW's strategy has changed, for example efficient
dynamics. We would have laughed at this 20 years ago for a BMW. You've got
expensive gas, miles per gallon requirements in the US, and growing
environmental sentiments where BMW's biggest market is. It unfortunately had
to adjust. That included a much more concerted effort to improve gas
mileage/energy usage when faced with the need to add weight due to consumers
' tastes demanding more electronics/features and safety laws requiring more
things to be added to the car. More weight from safety stuff and amenities
means beefier drivetrain/braking components and bigger/more powerful engines
to compensate which does what? Add more weight. What does more weight do?
Reduce gas mileage and the driving experience. Then to compensate for the
extra weight which hurts gas mileage what does BMW do? Give sportline 335i
cars skinny 225 tires on back and front, things like electronic steering,
run flat tires eliminating a spare, etc. What does this do in turn? Further
reduce the driving experience to offset the aforementioned gas mileage
challenges.
What should have been done in response? For starters, BMW dropped the ball
with the N55 engine. The engine is one of the aspects that make driving BMWs
so awesome. I thought the N54 was an awesome step for performance, and to
follow that up what did BMW give us? An N55 that while torquier off the line
, makes less power than the N54 motor. So here we are, in 2013 model years,
6 years after the N54 debuted in the 3 series, with engines making less
power than they used to. This in part allowed the competition to catch up.
Performance package power should have been standard on the N55 for the new
F30s as a way to help BMW keep its performance edge.
Not a fan of the steering which was one of the biggest letdowns of this new
car, and maybe BMW should have done a better job testing or at least given
us options to have a much better steering feel through a setting adjustment
at the cost of MPG. The F30 335i car is longer than the E90 which makes it
feel a bit bigger even though it's actually s shade lighter. The lack of a
limited slip differential is a joke in a car like the 335i, another big
mistake that should have been remedied long ago. That's something that would
really help the car get back some of that handling feeling we long for.
You can start to see that BMW seems to be moving towards a business model
that focuses more on profitability than anything else. What do most
consumers want? Gas mileage, technology/amenities, comfort and reasonable
pricing for example.
We can sit here and gripe about what BMW is doing wrong. But we on this
board are the minority, the true enthusiast who doesn't just drive to go
from point A to point B. What BMW is doing will help it sell more cars in
the long run. The current 3 series is a much better all around car than the
E90 for daily driving. Literally does everything better except steer and
accelerate. My biggest complaint is that there's not enough of what made the
3 series great being transferred to each successive vehicle, and not enough
performance improvement of late. Light weight vehicles that were fun to
toss around and had soul is what made this car special. I think BMW could
have done a better job incorporating the ol' recipe into future models. A
few steering tweaks, a bump in power, a limited slip diff, and some lighter
weight materials would go a long way to making this car the undisputed
leader in its class. |
V***b
发帖数: 3419 | 6 BMW一直在一个三角形里寻找最佳的平衡点，三角形的三个顶点分别是performance，
safety，mpg。任何两个顶点都是矛盾的，靠近其中一个就会远离另外两个。我认为F30
是成功的。当然我个人口味是希望更多靠向performance和safety，牺牲mpg的。这里最
关键一句是这个“We can sit here and gripe about what BMW is doing wrong. But
we on this board are the minority”
【在 x*b 的大作中提到】
: 有一个人我觉得回复的非常不错：
: Originally Posted by verbs
: I'm someone who has owned a CTS-V, E60 M5, and both an E92 335i and now an
: F30 335i (M-sport).
: Here are my thoughts. BMW has been impacted by a few things. Changes in
: consumer tastes/preferences, safety requirements, and regulations.
: To cope with this, BMW's strategy has changed, for example efficient
: dynamics. We would have laughed at this 20 years ago for a BMW. You've got
: expensive gas, miles per gallon requirements in the US, and growing
: environmental sentiments where BMW's biggest market is. It unfortunately had
|
d******g
发帖数: 6966 | 7 safety这个顶点加一个comfort吧，f30的ride quality/隔音比以前强不少.早期e90配
早期
rft的ride quality和路噪就是个灾难.
F30
But
【在 V***b 的大作中提到】
: BMW一直在一个三角形里寻找最佳的平衡点，三角形的三个顶点分别是performance，
: safety，mpg。任何两个顶点都是矛盾的，靠近其中一个就会远离另外两个。我认为F30
: 是成功的。当然我个人口味是希望更多靠向performance和safety，牺牲mpg的。这里最
: 关键一句是这个“We can sit here and gripe about what BMW is doing wrong. But
: we on this board are the minority”
|
D*****I
发帖数: 8268 | 8 总而言之大妈才是市场主流
【在 x*b 的大作中提到】
: 有一个人我觉得回复的非常不错：
: Originally Posted by verbs
: I'm someone who has owned a CTS-V, E60 M5, and both an E92 335i and now an
: F30 335i (M-sport).
: Here are my thoughts. BMW has been impacted by a few things. Changes in
: consumer tastes/preferences, safety requirements, and regulations.
: To cope with this, BMW's strategy has changed, for example efficient
: dynamics. We would have laughed at this 20 years ago for a BMW. You've got
: expensive gas, miles per gallon requirements in the US, and growing
: environmental sentiments where BMW's biggest market is. It unfortunately had
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 9 这就产生了一个问题。过去各个品牌的特点是相对比较分明的，现在都想接近最佳的平
衡点，彼此之间的差别就小了，MB或者Cadillac可能比BMW操控好，市场现有的秩序有
点要乱掉的感觉……
F30
But
【在 V***b 的大作中提到】
: BMW一直在一个三角形里寻找最佳的平衡点，三角形的三个顶点分别是performance，
: safety，mpg。任何两个顶点都是矛盾的，靠近其中一个就会远离另外两个。我认为F30
: 是成功的。当然我个人口味是希望更多靠向performance和safety，牺牲mpg的。这里最
: 关键一句是这个“We can sit here and gripe about what BMW is doing wrong. But
: we on this board are the minority”
|
i****x
发帖数: 17565 | 10 所谓Hotelling's law，沙滩上两个冰欺凌车，最后会背靠背卖冰淇淋，而非占据1/4,
3/4这两个最优点。
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: 这就产生了一个问题。过去各个品牌的特点是相对比较分明的，现在都想接近最佳的平
: 衡点，彼此之间的差别就小了，MB或者Cadillac可能比BMW操控好，市场现有的秩序有
: 点要乱掉的感觉……
:
: F30
: But
|
|
|
c*********r
发帖数: 19468 | 11 有道理，不过有时候寡头垄断下也可能达成某种平衡吧，现在可能是因为这个市场区间
的玩家在不断洗牌，平衡被打破了？
,
【在 i****x 的大作中提到】
: 所谓Hotelling's law，沙滩上两个冰欺凌车，最后会背靠背卖冰淇淋，而非占据1/4,
: 3/4这两个最优点。
|
i****x
发帖数: 17565 | 12 嗯，所谓coalition，咱俩默契，我不做跑车你不做菜车，分享各自市场的monopoly。
不过竞争者一多这种coalition就很不稳定，很快蜕变成大家同质产品死磕了。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.7
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: 有道理，不过有时候寡头垄断下也可能达成某种平衡吧，现在可能是因为这个市场区间
: 的玩家在不断洗牌，平衡被打破了？
:
: ,
|
x*b
发帖数: 5723 | 13 也许BMW会在2系上focus performance 从而抓住所谓的minority?
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.7
【在 i****x 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，所谓coalition，咱俩默契，我不做跑车你不做菜车，分享各自市场的monopoly。
: 不过竞争者一多这种coalition就很不稳定，很快蜕变成大家同质产品死磕了。
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.7
|
V***b
发帖数: 3419 | 14 有可能，反正3系已经堕落了，看看1系这乱象，2系还真有可能服务minority，1-
Series Coupe, 1-Series hatchback, M135i, 1-Series M, 1-Series is
【在 x*b 的大作中提到】
: 也许BMW会在2系上focus performance 从而抓住所谓的minority?
:
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.7
|
f********m
发帖数: 8397 | 15 我怎么较着是质的倒退呢？ e90比e46又大又笨
【在 x*b 的大作中提到】
: 其实你说得很对，F30综合起来还不错，但是确实没有E46到E90那种质的飞跃。
: 可以看看F30Post上老外的讨论，也挺有意思：
: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772832
|
f********m
发帖数: 8397 | 16 玩家少都是incumbent还好，比如coke and pepsi. 玩家多了，或者有新人上来了，这
个就玩不转了。
【在 c*********r 的大作中提到】
: 有道理，不过有时候寡头垄断下也可能达成某种平衡吧，现在可能是因为这个市场区间
: 的玩家在不断洗牌，平衡被打破了？
:
: ,
|
f********m
发帖数: 8397 | 17 关键在于你的客户群是谁。如果大家都是在一个平衡点，target一样的客户群，那结果
就是价格战。那样的话都是输家。
F30
But
【在 V***b 的大作中提到】
: BMW一直在一个三角形里寻找最佳的平衡点，三角形的三个顶点分别是performance，
: safety，mpg。任何两个顶点都是矛盾的，靠近其中一个就会远离另外两个。我认为F30
: 是成功的。当然我个人口味是希望更多靠向performance和safety，牺牲mpg的。这里最
: 关键一句是这个“We can sit here and gripe about what BMW is doing wrong. But
: we on this board are the minority”
|
b***t
发帖数: 1104 | 18 that's my feeling. I have both E46 and E90
【在 f********m 的大作中提到】
: 我怎么较着是质的倒退呢？ e90比e46又大又笨
|
h****y
发帖数: 9234 | 19 一直不解啊
比如国内,麦当劳和肯德基永远是挨在一起开的...
,
【在 i****x 的大作中提到】
: 所谓Hotelling's law，沙滩上两个冰欺凌车，最后会背靠背卖冰淇淋，而非占据1/4,
: 3/4这两个最优点。
|
i****x
发帖数: 17565 | 20 是个博弈论的结果，好比囚徒困境，虽然谁都知道不好，但就是逃不出去。博弈论真是
好强大的思维，否则也拿不了诺贝尔奖
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.7
【在 h****y 的大作中提到】
: 一直不解啊
: 比如国内,麦当劳和肯德基永远是挨在一起开的...
:
: ,
|
T******g
发帖数: 21328 | 21 好的地段大家都想要，最后就是你死我活
【在 h****y 的大作中提到】
: 一直不解啊
: 比如国内,麦当劳和肯德基永远是挨在一起开的...
:
: ,
|
f********m
发帖数: 8397 | 22 你找一个朋友simulate一下就知道了
【在 h****y 的大作中提到】
: 一直不解啊
: 比如国内,麦当劳和肯德基永远是挨在一起开的...
:
: ,
|
